CLASS 21: TUE NOV 12

Green-Eyed Logic Puzzle

Housekeeping

  • Categories and Tags
    • We don’t use Tags.
    • Tags are ineffective.
    • Remove Tags if you’re using them, and replace them with Categories.
    • If I can’t find your posts because they’re not correctly categorized (like paper essays that never arrive on my desk), you won’t get credit for posting them.
    • I don’t want that to happen.
      • If the number of posts alongside your sidebar name is shy, you’re not categorizing every time.
      • If your post shows up in the 123 Uncheck this Box! feed, you’re not categorizing perfectly.
  • Feedback Please
    • You did it.
    • I got what I was requesting.
      • Feedback Please requests by the dozens.
    • How to speed the process.
      • Add a Reply to your post that details the sort of Feedback you seek.
        • Don’t worry that you won’t get the full benefit of a feedback request; you can ask as often as you like, each time for a different sort of feedback.
      • I will respond first to the most specific requests.
      • If you’re very strategic, you can achieve several rounds of specific feedback BEFORE non-specific requests are addressed.
    • Take some time NOW to place specific request Replies to the posts you’re most eager to have reviewed.
  • A Note about the Revision Process
    • This might be disappointing.
    • Many of you ask “Did I make the changes you requested? Did the changes work? Have I strengthened the argument as you suggested?”
    • I’m not going to try to answer those questions.
    • The path forward for Revisions is FORWARD.
    • I apologize if this seems rude, stupid, or disrespectful.
    • I don’t mean it that way.
    • Eventually, when grading your Portfolio, I will certainly compare your early drafts to your final posts to see how far they’ve progressed.
    • But by then, I won’t remember whether you were responding to specific suggestions of mine or developing better ideas from your own genius.
    • And that’s how it should be.
    • So, for now, I will consider ONLY the draft in front of me.
    • If you asked for structural advice, and received it, and made structural revisions but are still uncertain about your structure, just ask me to take another look at your structure. I won’t look back to see how much better your structure is (What’s the point of that?). I’ll look forward and offer whatever advice I can to improve your current draft.
    • Reply below if you think I should reconsider this approach.

Nuclear Power: Worth the Risk?

Lecture: Rebuttal Arguments

30 Responses to CLASS 21: TUE NOV 12

  1. Green-Eyed Logic Puzzle: One hundred green-eyed logicians have been imprisoned on an island by a mad dictator. The only way to escape the island is to have green eyes, however, they’re unaware they have them due to the dictators rules. If given the chance to speak one sentence to the prisoners, we would say “At least one of you have green eyes.” They’re able to escape due to process of elimination.

    Housekeeping: properly categorize our posts and specific on what type of feedback you want.

    Nuclear Power: Worth the Risk?: Nuclear power plants are disasters waiting to happen that people tend to put under the radar. They take insane amount of money to operate only to be a danger to society. An accident like those in Japan is just as likely to happen in the US.

    Rebuttal Arguments: It’s not an effective rebuttal to request more evidence from the author. Providing a single piece of good evidence is an effective rebuttal. It’s not an effective rebuttal to complain that you really don’t see what the evidence provided has to do with the argument. Pointing out that the evidence to support the author’s conclusion is missing from the argument is an effective rebuttal. It’s not an effective rebuttal to say that the evidence provided doesn’t quite add up to a proof. Demonstrating how a correct interpretation of the evidence proves something other than the author’s argument is an effective rebuttal. It’s not an effective rebuttal to say that the author is unfair to your “side” of the argument and should offer evidence to support your position. Analogy is prediction based on close comparisons. An effective rebuttal of a false analogy is one that points out the essential difference. Once a false analogy has been made, almost certainly a false choice will follow. An effective rebuttal of a false choice is one that points out the unnamed third choice.

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  2. comp0327 says:

    NOTES:
    – Today’s riddle was different than usual, it made me think really hard and challenged my brain. I think riddles like this are important, it educates us on social logic.
    -We cannot use tags on our published writing, it will make some of our assignments ‘invisible’ when looking at our profile. Make sure to post to topic and our username.
    – Is nuclear power worth the risk? Are they disasters waiting to happen?
    -humans are fallible, making these plants a slight risk.
    -Acknowledging the opposite standpoint when making an argument is just as important as supporting your own standpoint.
    -This should be followed by a strong rebuttal to make your argument stronger.

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  3. 11/12 Notes:
    -Be sure to check the appropriate categories when submitting drafts, and do not use tags which have no use and allow your work to get lost in the blog.
    -Make sure to be responsive in your feedback requests, for generic requests are likely to sit at bottom of the feed.
    -A proper rebuttal will not ignore the points of the author but effectively address and explain the problems with their arguments.
    -having sufficient evidence, although may not prove your right, may be the difference in making your claims more trusted than another author’s.

    Like

    • davidbdale says:

      Reading your Note about Feedback Please while providing feedback to your classmates, I notice you have no outstanding Feedback requests. Is it possible you don’t want guidance (or interference) on your Editorial for Portfolio or your Op-Ed Draft?

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  4. roses0102 says:

    – In the puzzle, prisoners all have green eyes but yet can’t escape the prison due to the dictators rules. On the hundreth morning, all the prisoners are gone. With process of elimination with their eye colors in the prison, all the prisoners leave on day 100 The philosophy is called common knowledge. Instead of telling each person, they told the whole group about it.
    Housekeeping
    – Do not use any tags, use categories to organize your work under your name, and also the correct category of work. 123 uncheck this box!
    – Feedback is accepted more quickly with more specific requests. Dont ask your progress on applying the feedback to your writing.
    -Effective Rebuttals- You cannot simply say that someone doesn’t have enough evidence, because a small amount of evidence may be enough to be true.

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  5. Started with a riddle on 100 green eyed people and that they are on an island and cant talk but can leave if their eyes are green and they do not know that. To answer this riddle you have to use common sense

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  6. yankeefan25 says:

    Class Notes
    Today’s puzzle involved a lot of reasoning to set the scenario. Just by looking at each others eye color and the fact that the other person did not leave tells them that they have green eyes.
    When giving a rebuttal it is never good to say that they do not have enough evidence. That just does not make sense and requires you to present better evidence. If instead you provide a single strong piece of evidence then that is an effective rebuttal. Stacking the deck is also extremely important because it layers your argument. First you need to figure out what is in your readers mind is most important. Once you figure this out you can disprove it and refute it one by one.

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  7. mpsj13 says:

    House keeping
    -Be sure to use categories and not tags while posting work and to uncheck the box that says uncheck box.
    -Make sure to add a reply with specific feedback needs.
    *Start with broad advice and then ask for more specific feedback later.
    *Generic requests will be on the bottom of the feedback list and more specific requests will be responded to first.
    -No response will be made to the question “did I effectively execute feedback”
    *Response will only be made to the current draft
    Lecture
    -False choice presents only two options when there are actually more options available.
    *To rebut this you must present the logical response to the short comings of what you respond to.
    -“You did not have enough evidence so you cannot be right” is not a strong rebuttal because you must show better evidence to prove your point over theirs.
    -Figuring out what trepidation the reader may have to proactively open them up to your ideas.
    *Anticipate arguments against your point and refute it before it can be argued.

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  8. Valcom says:

    Notes: 11/12/2019
    [] Puzzle: On an island there are 100 people, they know that 99 of the people have green eyes, but each one do not know if they have green eyes of their own.
    -When you visit the island you can tell the people one phrase but something that the people don’t already know.
    -Statement: “One of you has green eyes”
    [] Housekeeping: Do not use tags when you are publishing the papers and essays you write.
    -Check how many posts you have under your username, 8-10 is the on the right path, anything below is a catch up or you may fail range.
    -With feedback, state what you want feedback on and do not be generic unless you need that much help. Think of a funnel, state a question and funnel down more questions from the broad statement so you do not just ask a generic question.
    -Prof will start to answer specific questions first, rather than spend a lot of time on generic feedback requests.
    [] Nuclear Power: Try to find false choices and irrelevant information.
    -Understand the other side and then know how to compare and work with the other side.

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  9. voxpopuli75 says:

    11/12/19
    -Don’t use tags on your posts, instead use categories otherwise your work might not show up where it is supposed to.
    – Additionally make sure to uncheck the “123 Uncheck Me” category.
    – Effective rebuttals wont just point out logical fallacies they also try to “correct” the logic the original author put forth.
    – To refute insufficient evidence try to point out a good piece of evidence that is a rebuttal.
    – To rebut irrelevant evidence point out that the author is missing evidence from the argument
    – Inconclusive evidence can be rebutted by showing how what the author presents could draw a different conclusion.
    – When the author “stacks the deck” against your side make sure to point out evidence that they left out.
    – To refute a false analogy point out the differences between the two things the author is comparing.
    – False choices can be rebutted by pointing out an alternative choice/argument.

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  10. 11/12
    NOTES
    Drafts
    – Prof doesn’t want to compare you submission right now to the last submission, but rather dissect the current one to give better advice
    – Prof will be comparing your drafts to your final product at the end of the semester and when he will finally be grading the work cause that’s what truly shows improvement
    – Truly I believe this is a great idea and he told us in a respectful way

    Green Eye Color Puzzle
    – eye color puzzle that is confusing and can be argued against
    – Prof showed his reasoning for refuting the argument and gave evidence
    – It makes no sense to why all the people in prison leave on the same number day of the amount of people

    Rebuttal
    – Nuclear power plants are disasters waiting to happen and could be high risk destruction causers
    – They take an extremely high amount of money to run, but are entirely a hazard
    – Read article by Bob Herbert and were given the task to give a rebuttal
    – You can’t just name call and say something is wrong or irrelevant, you have to give a rebuttal and say whats right to refute the argument
    – You need to provide at least a single piece of good evidence for a effective rebuttal
    – In a rebuttal don’t try to convince writer, but rather prove your point and give reasoning

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  11. bmdpiano says:

    NOTES:

    Logic Puzzle:
    -Green-Eyed People Riddle
    -There is no effective answer
    -Having either 2 or 100 people does not make a difference in knowing who has green eyes and can leave

    Nuclear Power:
    -Is there an argument to refute the article?
    -Author wants us to decide between false choices.

    Lecture: Rebuttal Arguments
    -You cannot just point out the problem, there has to be a logical conclusion.
    -Is it a fair argument to say “You did not provide enough evidence.”? It is not fair. It can be correct, but it is not effective.
    -There needs to be evidence to refute the argument of the other person’s evidence not being effective.
    -False analogies do not result in strong proofs
    -Find what is in the reader’s mind that is preventing them from agreeing with your side.

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  12. lucbe219 says:

    To begin class, we started with a difficult puzzle we needed to solve. There are 100 logical people imprisoned under a mad dictator who need to escape. If they have green eyes, they are able to leave, but if not, they are thrown into the volcano. Each person was put there at birth and are not able to see or know if their eye color is green. We are supposed to tell the prisoners a statement, yet we are unable to tell them anything new. We tell them that, “at least one of you has green eyes.” By the 100th morning, all of the prisoners have escaped. Later in class, we discussed how if we use tags, the professor is unable to see our work which will end up in the lack of grade for that assignment. We soon moved on to reading an article on nuclear power and if it should be used today or not. Although nuclear power plants are costly and sometimes dangerous, they would be reasonable if the location of it was safe and smart to avoid natural catastrophes. It was addressed that you can only refute an argument if you have slightly better evidence to support your claim.

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  13. kraemercali says:

    11/12
    green eyed logic puzzle- how to tell them they have green eyes and can be freed? 2 days for 2 people or 100 days for everyone
    housekeeping- use categories, not tags, feedback
    nuclear power- worth the risk?
    rebuttal arguments- evidence to be effective vs ineffective
    ex. how to prove the earth isn’t flat, be able to refute or counter argue, but only able to do so effectively if you know the other sides stance/ belief/ argument

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  14. ahntkd99 says:

    11/12
    Green-Eyed Logic Puzzle
    – 100 logicians have green eyes and they want to leave the prison
    – one person has green eyes and on the 100th day, the prisoners all left the island

    Housekeeping
    – Categories and Tags: Tags are ineffective
    – Feedback Please
    – How to speed the process: Add a reply to your post that details the sort of feedback you seek
    – Take some time now to place specific request replies to the posts
    – A note about the revision process: compare your early drafts to your final posts to see how far they’ve progressed

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  15. Riddle (Green-eyed logic puzzle)
    – 100 people are trapped on an island
    – They are only allowed to leave if the guard at night lets them leave, and they will only be granted access to leave if they have green eyes (They all have green eyes)
    – There are no reflective surfaces on the island so they can’t tell if they have green eyes themselves and they are not allowed to tell each-other that they have green eyes either
    – An outsider is eventually allowed on the island and allowed to make one statement to the people that gives no new information to the people (The outsider must think of a statement that will help the people leave the island)
    – The best statement to make would be “At least one of you has green eyes.”
    – Eventually all the people would be able to leave and be free as day by day they conclude they each have green eyes
    Housekeeping
    – Don’t use tags, they are ineffective, and we should be using categories when publishing assignments or else they won’t show up for our professor
    – Make sure to ask for feedback on assignments
    – It is possible to receive multiple rounds of feedback and make many detail revisions
    – To speed up the process of receiving feedback, request early and ask for the most generic and basic advice first and then make more specific and detailed feedback as time goes on
    Nuclear Power: Worth the Risk? (Lecture: Rebuttal Arguments)
    – False choice: an effective rebuttal of a false choice is one that points out the unnamed third choice, not just simply stating that we were offered a false choice.
    – False analogies are usually followed by false choices
    – Insufficient evidence doesn’t mean the author is wrong and is not a valid argument.
    – Providing at least one piece of good evidence of our own to refute an argument is an effective rebuttal
    – Pointing out that evidence provided is irrelevant isn’t a strong argument but providing evidence that supports said argument is very effective
    – Inconclusive evidence can be made effective by correcting the interpretation of the evidence proving something other than the author’s original argument.
    – Saying an author is unfair to your opinion is not effective but being able to call them out on it and showing evidence is.

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  16. ajuuy7 says:

    We solved a riddle about 100 green-eyed people trying to get off an island. Make sure to always uncheck the uncheck box and chose the correct categories when posting. When asking for feedback leave a reply that asks for something specific. We read an article and then learned effective rebuttal arguments. The Bible is not used for academic evidence because the first premise is too easy to refute.

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  17. lg102015 says:

    Notes 11/12
    Green eyed logic puzzle:
    Today we went over the green eyed logic puzzle. In this puzzle their are 100 prisoners on an island being held captive by a guard. The rules are the only way you are allowed to leave is if you have green eyes. The prisoners do not know their own eye color. Someone comes in and tells the prisoners that “at least one of them has green eyes” this was enough information for the prisoners to use the process of elimination and logic to figure out on the 100th days that they all have green eyes. They all get to leave the island that night.
    Nuclear Power: worth the risk?
    Nuclear power plants have done a lot of damage in the past, and cost a lot of money to run. In the past it has hurt society but I believe that they have been renovated and we have new technology available to us, so that the use of nuclear power plants has become safer then what it was before.
    Rebuttal Arguments:
    It is never an effective argument to say that your claims cannot be accurate because you did not add enough evidence to back up your claim. It is effective if you have a better argument then the claim they are making. As long as you have support and better evidence then the other person. Your argument will be seen as better and more effective. As a writer you need to figure out what your reader believes is wrong with your argument and how you can keep them reading long enough to show them evidence.

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  18. Notes 11/12/19
    ~
    -Riddle about green-eyed prisoner logicians.
    -Use categories, not tags.
    -Uncheck 123 Uncheck this box!
    -Be specific about the feedback you want and apply it directly.
    -Nuclear power plants have their respective dangers and benefits. They do not omit green house gases, however it is very costly and can pose life-threatening effects.
    -It’s not an effective rebuttal to request more evidence from the author.
    -It’s not an effective rebuttal to argue that you don’t see what the evidence provided has to do with the argument.
    -It’s not an effective rebuttal to say that the author is unfair to your “side” of the argument and should offer evidence to support your position.
    -The earth is not flat.

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  19. compclass8 says:

    Green Eyes Riddle- all 100 people have green eyes and are logicians. They can escape if they go to the guard and he sees green eyes.
    Don’t ever try to force facts to a reader who just doesn’t agree with the fact that you are presenting, it will make them lose interest.
    Go through and clean up word press/ make sure everything is in order with the right labels.

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  20. Green-Eyed Logic Puzzle:
    -100 green-eyed prisoners -They can escape if they go to the guard and he sees green eyes
    – Don’t ever try to shove facts down the throat of a reader who just doesn’t agree with you, because they just won’t be interested and they gain nothing from it.
    -Avoid using tags when posting on the blog. Just use categories given to submit so that our writing can be found. Remember to uncheck the uncheck box. 

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  21. bestbaker123 says:

    Notes 11/12:
    – Green Eyes Riddle: all 100 people have green eyes and are logicians
    – Only allowed to leave if the guard at night lets them leave, and they will IF they have green eyes, which they all do!
    – You can only make one statement but you cannot tell them any new information.
    – Eventually, all the people leave the island after you told them “at least one of you have green eyes”
    – The trick is that no one knows what color eyes they have until the next morning. If the night before 2 people look at each other and see they have green eyes, then they will wait until the next morning, to make sure they do in fact have green eyes, even if they don’t know that.
    – Don’t ever try to shove facts down the throat of a reader who just doesn’t agree with you, because they just won’t be interested and they gain nothing from it.
    – You have to find the reason to the thing you are arguing
    – You can never say that the author didn’t provide enough sufficient evidence because the author doesn’t have to bring truckloads of evidence even if you still aren’t convinced.
    – The effective rebuttal would be to say that the author’s evidence isn’t logical or that it is irrelevant.

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  22. lovericeandnoodles says:

    logic puzzle about green eyed prisoners, represents common knowledge
    housekeeping 123 uncheck this box
    feedback is always given if asked
    the revisions given will improve draft
    the earth is not flat do not be a flat-earther

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  23. 11/12/2019 Notes
    Green-Eyed Logic Puzzle:
    -100 green-eyed prisoners -They can escape if they go to the guard and he sees green eyes
    -Each know 99 prisoners have green eyes, but no one knows if they personally do -One statement can be said, but no new information is allowed to be said.
    -Statement: “At least one of you has green eyes.”
    Housekeeping
    – Make sure you are using categories instead of tags
    – Add a Reply to your post that details the sort of Feedback you seek to speed the feedback process.
    Lecture: Rebuttal Arguments
    – Insufficient evidence rebuttal is ineffective. Having one good piece of good evidence is more effective.
    – Pointing out that the evidence to support the author’s conclusion is missing from the argument is an effective rebuttal.

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  24. Riddle:
    An island exists where 100 green eyed people people are being trapped by an evil dictator. This dictator will free you if you have green eyes, but not one person knows for sure if they themselves have that eye color. We came to the island and tell the people that at least one of you has green eyes. Life continues the same for a little while. The next morning everyone is gone. It would take 100 nights to figure out if everyone is green eyed. Because each needs to figure out if they themselves are green eyed. If someone were to leave then people may think that the green eyed person has left.

    Notes:
    Avoid using tags when posting on the blog. Just use categories given to submit so that our writing can be found. Remember to uncheck the uncheck box. When writing an argument, about half the people reading will disagree with you. We need to find out why they disagree with us so that we can prove our point to them. Refutations can be insufficient. For example, some evidence may be unnecessary and does not help the case for the argument. If you do not have a good argument with strong evidence, your entire argument can be shot down easily. Authors of arguments are not obligated to be fair to the other side. They are only trying to prove their own point.

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  25. lazybear8 says:

    Logic Puzzle:
    The key is the philosophy of common knowledge. “At least 99 of you have green eyes”-solution.
    Categories or Tags:
    Don’t use tags. If a tag is used instead of a category, it will not reach the teachers “desk”. Get rid of all tags used, and replace with categories in order for them to receive grades and feedback properly. Make sure the number along the sidebar is correct.

    Not a lot of time left of class, get feedback and work towards finishing portfolio.
    It doesn’t matter how many times you ask, whether its grammar, argument, or structural help, the professor will assist if help is properly requested in a reply while posted in Feedback Please.
    “You must kill your darlings”–Do not get attached to what you have written because it will most likely need change.

    Rebuttal Arguments:
    If your opponents evidence is bad your single piece of good evidence is effective in a rebuttal.

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  26. doglover441 says:

    -Solved the famously difficult green-eyed logic puzzle
    -Only categorize all posts do not use tags when posting
    -Add a Reply to your post that details the sort of Feedback you seek.
    -Can ask as often as you like, each time for a different sort of feedback.
    -Will respond first to the most specific requests.
    -If you’re very strategic, you can achieve several rounds of specific feedback BEFORE non-specific requests are addressed.
    -The path forward for Revisions is forward.
    -When grading your Portfolio, I will certainly compare your early drafts to your final posts to see how far they’ve progressed.
    -Essential to figure out what keeps an audience from agreeing with our topic
    -Read an article about Nuclear power plants and their dangers and benefits which are if the plant could be unsafe and they don’t admit green-house gasses
    -However, the price is too expensive to continue building these plants
    -It’s not an effective rebuttal to complain that you really don’t see what the evidence provided has to do with the argument.
    -Effective when providing a single piece of good evidence is an effective rebuttal.
    -It’s not an effective rebuttal to request more evidence from the author.
    – It’s not an effective rebuttal to say that the evidence provided doesn’t quite add up to a proof.
    -Effective when demonstrating how a correct interpretation of the evidence proves something other than the author’s argument is an effective rebuttal.

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  27. smellycat23 says:

    Class began with a riddle with 100 prisoners with green eyes that want to leave the island. They are allowed to leave but don’t know if they have green eyes. A visitor can tell the prisoners one statement but not disclose new information. The visitor tells the prisoners at least one person has green eyes and on the 100th day, the prisoners all left the island. If at least one person has green eyes, on the first night, two people will be able to tell if the other has green eyes because when they both think the other has green eyes and don’t leave the island, then they both will know they have green eyes and will leave.

    For when we post blogs, we should be using categories and not tags. Specific feedback requests should be requested. A thesis should be controversial and rebuttals are useful. A rebuttal should not just disagree with the author’s evidence, but providing a single piece of good evidence is a good rebuttal. Also pointing out evidence in the author’s conclusion is missing from the argument is effective. Interpreting the evidence and proving something besides the author’s argument is effective.

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  28. lelebxby says:

    Class Notes – 11/12/19
    Green-Eyed Logic Puzzle
    – One hundred green-eyed logicians have been imprisoned on an island by a mad dictator. The only way to escape the island is to have green eyes, however, they’re unaware they have them due to the dictators rules.
    – If given the chance to speak one sentence to the prisoners, we would say “At least one of you have green eyes.”
    – By saying this, due to process of elimination and common knowledge, they’re able to escape.
    – The new information wasn’t contained in the statement itself but rather telling it to them all simultaneously.
    Housekeeping
    – In class, we went over how to properly categorize our posts and how to work and apply the feedback given to us.
    Nuclear Power: Worth the Risk?
    – Nuclear power plants are disasters waiting to happen that people tend to put under the radar.
    – They take thousands of dollars to run only to be a hazardous to society.
    – Because nature is unpredictable and humans are fallible, an accident like those in Japan and other foreign countries are just as likely to happen in the US.
    Rebuttal Arguments
    – An argument is in vain if you don’t acknowledge the opposing view point.
    – Providing a single piece of good evidence is an effective rebuttal.
    – Pointing out that the evidence to support the author’s conclusion is missing from the argument is an effective rebuttal.
    – Demonstrate a correct interpretation of the evidence to prove something other than the author’s argument.
    – An effective rebuttal of a false choice is one that points out the unnamed third choice.

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  29. bane1900 says:

    The puzzle today was very challenging because it involved a lot of reasoning and deducing. It would take the prisoners a total of 100 days to have everyone escape due to narrowing down the field on people who have green eyes. Proofs and evidence does not have to be drawn out or dragged along. Good rebuttals are when readers can point out flaws with the authors lack of evidence, rather than just flat out disagreeing with what they are saying.

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